17th June, 2012
Dear all Brothers and Sisters
Asalaam Alaikum
This is to inform you that on Friday 15th June,2012, I was at a well and solidly attended post Budget luncheon by the Private Sector Foundation Uganda (PSFU) at UMA main exhbtn Hall( Mulwana hall).
The Chief Guest was the Hon. Minister of Finance , planning, Mrs Maria Kiwanuka who articulately responded to the very many questions raised by the PSFU membership about the just read Budget.
I, Hajjat Sebyala wanted to hear it from the Horse’s Mouth, so I asked the Hon Minister, to expound on her statement on Islamic Banking and I also requested that since the Bill including Islamic banking has been in the pipeline for sometime, let her explore possibilities of Fast tracking it.
Her answer,…….
” TO MUKYALA SEBYALA, MADAM, ISLAMIC BANKING IS BEING HANDLED AND CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY BY THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT IN GENERAL”
Then Mr, Lawrence Kiiza , Director Economic Affairs, in the same Ministry stood up after the Hon Minister and elaborated that:
“FOR ISLAMIC BANKING, THE BILL CONTAINING ISLAMIC BANKING AND OTHER AMENDMENTS WILL BE SUBMITTED TO PARLIAMENT THIS YEAR”
In view of the foregoing I have the following questions:
1. Supposing the amendment bill is submitted and passed , Are we ready???
2. Before it is even passed, it has technical Issues, do we have Brothers and Sisters in Parliament well grounded to explain those issues to their colleagues????
3. Do we have a well grounded team to lobby or even to to explain to Parliament what this is all about as a good number of bills get through parliament because there are groups lobbying for them
4. Each Bank offering Islamic Banking MAY have to have a Sharia Board…… to ascertain that those products conform to Islamic finance principles… Do we have Ugandans well Grounded in both Sharia and Finance to sit on those Boards???
5. Are we preparing or have we prepared our children, brothers and sisters to work in the Islamic banking Sections of the banks??
6. Where is that data Bank of our children trained in Islamic banking so we can recommend them….. By the way which Body will recommend them and to who….??
7. What should we do in the interim????????? There so many questions running through mymind, yet with very few answers……..
8. In Tanzania, their MUSLIM SUPREME COUNCIL played a key role in engaging Goverment and in the actual approving of the Products and I think of the Banks to offer Islamic banking windows, does anybody know if our Council(s) is/ are involved in any way???
Please also read the questions raised by sister Jamilla from Malaysia here below ( Just reproduced below my mail) and let us know( under what umbrella??? UMYA, UMSC, KIBULI, UMNET, UMPRO, Islamic SACCO…………..????) try to get ready.
You may please share these thoughts with other brothers and sisters so we agree on how we all can ADD VALUE to this process.
REGARDS
HAJJAT A.K. SEBYALA
NATIONAL COORDINATOR
2008 OIC BUSINESS FORUM, (at which the formation of the first Islamic Bank in Uganda was announced)
TEL: 0752 695 692, 0702 695 692
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Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 17:27:18 +0800
Subject: Re: {UMBS} A DEMO FOR ISLAMIC BANKING? ANY IDEAS?
From: jem@iab.edu.my
To: uganda-muslim-brothers-and-sisters@googlegroups.com
Salam to all
My two cents of thought! Before you all stage a demo or what sort of it is. I just curious.
First: do u have anybody who have enough money to open the bank and use islamic banking system.
Second: Do u have a staff, capacities, abilities, all things in a right place to start islamic bank.
third: Do u have a capabilities to maintain with high regards, qualities and standard to follow islamic banking system.
It doesnt mean I oppose to the idea but I think Muslim in Uganda must have wisdom and careful thought when u want to do something.
In Malaysia first, we have Federal Bank (the governor is a lady who was named the best federal bank governor in the world) who agree with the idea. But of course it has started from somewhere. Before that, we have Islamic university which taught Islamic Banking, Islamic Finance and Islamic economy. They also have committee of Islamic scholars who study and endorse islamic banking products such as mudharabah, personal loan and many types of products. Because many muslims follow different madhab (sections) for example certain mazhab totally against personal loan. Many secular bank in malaysia such as Hong Kong Bank also used islamic banking concept as it is more profitable to them.
So far as I know, in Oman where more than 90% muslims, they still refuse to use Islamic banking as they said (I have Oman banker friend who work in their national/federal bank) said what we have today (as practice in malaysia) do not follow the strict mazhab as most of Omani are Ibadhi mazhab. Bank in a real sense cannot operate without riba. They have tried to change the name from riba to processing fees or fees, operational cost but still what Allah mentioned in the Quran is difficult to comprehend because many mazhab have many understanding/interpretation. Instead of Islamic Bank do we need Islamic Bank (hanafi version, syafie version, Ibadhi version, maliki, hanafi and so on).
What do u think?
–
Jamilah Jaafar
Jabatan Penyelidikan dan Penilaian
Pusat Penyelidikan, Penilaian dan ICT
Institut Aminuddin Baki
Kementerian Pelajaran Malaysia
69000 Genting Highlands, Pahang.
T: +603-6105 6406
Faks: 603-6105 6299/6294
M: +6017-244-6837
Assalaam alaykum
Islamic banking using the means of paper money is just like the other banks, the only difference in islamic banking system will be new terminologies which sound islamic, but in reality those terminologies are just covering up for the system of banking we have today. A piece of paper is cut in the triangle form, painted, a picture of a known person is put on and above all that piece of a paper is named 10/20/50/100 dollars/pounds/euros/shillings. Beacuse this is a piece of paper if you happen to put it on fire it will turn to ashes, therefore it has to be protected well – Banks are established for that purpose, then cards – visa, master etc and now Electronic/Mobile Money. The rich are becoming richer, the poor are becoming poorer, the middle class becomes the slave of the system. How? He/she is been told that Success is in having A degree, a car, a house, a big wedding, a big bank balance, most recent stuff etc. Really – Is that SUCCESS?
We know that Deen is complete, so there is solutions for each and everything of humanity way of life from the time the Deen was completed to our time TODAY upto the time of Yawm DEEN.
The question is what are those solutions? What DID we learn from the GREENLAND BANK?
Isha ALLAH I will continue from there next time if life is still in this body Allah has intrusted to me for the period He only knows.
Wassalaam
Sulaiman NSUBUGA, Streatham masjid
This is just a step of a long journey. We need to increase on lobbying and advocacy until we finally reach. We must work against exclusion embedded in Government policies.
As policy, i certain BOU is interested in “Islamic Banking”. This has come out very clearly in the many End-of- Ramadhan festive events. I also think its a GREY AREA, for most Ugandans,
I want to suggest , some public dialogue debates or symposiums , than the protesting. Awareness creation is the major issue now, that even if approved today, implementation can really take some time
For now, lets get sponsors for public events, in many parts of Uganda. This will also grow the required critical mass for the demonstrations in future
Hajji Musiitwa M M
iam not very sure about B.O.Us opposition to Islamic banking.As a matter of fact i know that the bank has invested substancial resources in training its senior staff in preparation for islamic banking so that they can regulate it effectively.Some of these trainings have been in uganda others outside in countries where islamic banking is practiced.Consequent to that preparation and because of the uniquiness of some of the products sold by islamic banking a specific law is required.To my knowledge this law is before cabinet. BOU already has a pending application by NBC to open up a window for Islamic banking.It is also important to know that it is possible to sell some of the islamic products under the current legal regime once there is a sound contractual arrangement between the bank and the customer complying with islamic and ugandan law .BOU has however asked that such arrangements be delayed untill the law is passed. I have had previous meetings with the Governor on this issue and to the contrary he is very open and supportive especially because of the advantages derived from Islamic banking.
yours faithfully,
Salim Makeera
MANAGING PARTNER
MAKEERA & CO.ADVOCATES
METROPOLE HOUSE, ENTEBBE ROAD
PLOT 8/10 G-11, P.O.BOX 23528
TEL. 0414 254915/ 0772 449576
KAMPALA, UGANDA
Dear Brothers and Sisters
Don’t worry there are a few of us Muslim professional about 8-15 who saw Islamic banking coming .
There are those who professional knowledge but in arabic many of our sheilks have the knowledge and will be part of the Sharia Supervisory boards , and there are a few of us who have studied and qualified in Islamic finance using English as a medium of study . The professionals are there only we need to identify and assemble them . For example I finished the Chartered Islamic Finance Professional (CIFP) offered by Malaysian Global university of Islamic Finance – INCEIF and currently pursuing PH.D In Islamic Finance from the same University which i hope to Finish in two years time . All we need is assembling the professional into a body .
Please for more information contact me 0772774432
Asslam
Kiyita Muhammad Kyambadde
kmkyita@gmail.com
salaam to all, i really believe that we should push for islamic banking to start,if it starts people with knowledge will come on board,the government all along delay muslim’s based policies claiming no man power to man them forexample the khadhi courts
Assalam Alaikum,
I have not been following this discussion but kind of trampled on it as I was going through my mails.
This is just to emphasize to you brothers and sisters especially those in the economic field that if we don’t walk the talk, we shall loose out. For us in medicine we thought that our historical (religious) experience with circumcision qualified us automatically to take on the mantle of safe male medical circumcision. FYI, Muslims do not appear any where in the national circumcision programme. Did we lack the skill?
So if we continue to think that Islamic Banking is a preserve for muslims and we continue debating or demonstrating, instead of sitting down and drawing strategies, we may be out for a major shock. Who knows whether the delay in the legal regularisation could be a trick to get some “other” experts in Islamic banking other than muslims.
I like this forum so much on one hand for the information it brings out, but on the other hand we remain very theoretical. Let us get onto our feet and stop talking.
Hakim Sendagire, MBChB, MSc, PhD
Director: Seeta Academic Complex-Kasangati
hsendagire@yahoo.com
Assalam Alaikum,
I have not been following this discussion but kind of trampled on it as I was going through my mails.
This is just to emphasize to you brothers and sisters especially those in the economic field that if we don’t walk the talk, we shall loose out. For us in medicine we thought that our historical (religious) experience with circumcision qualified us automatically to take on the mantle of safe male medical circumcision. FYI, Muslims do not appear any where in the national circumcision programme. Did we lack the skill?
So if we continue to think that Islamic Banking is a preserve for muslims and we continue debating or demonstrating, instead of sitting down and drawing strategies, we may be out for a major shock. Who knows whether the delay in the legal regularisation could be a trick to get some “other” experts in Islamic banking other than muslims.
I like this forum so much on one hand for the information it brings out, but on the other hand we remain very theoretical. Let us get onto our feet and stop talking.
Hakim Sendagire, MBChB, MSc, PhD
Director: Seeta Academic Complex-Kasangati
hsendagire@yahoo.com
Asalaam alaikum to all of u here,ma appreciation to u all for advocating 4 islamic banking,i think when islamic bankings is permitted in uganda muslims well being of muslims will improve and also muslim projects we benefit from expanding using halal means
in uganda we just need to lobby to parliament and ministry of finance for fasttracking of the amendment of the financial institutions act 2004 that seeks to permit islamic banking,in parliament we can use m.p Ibrahim Semujja Nganda he is on finance committee of parliament he can articulate issues concerning islamic banking to others in committee ,also he use his previledge while in parliament to pose aquestion to the minister of finance through the speaker under the notion of matter of national importance by questioning minister why she has delayed to bring the amendments that could permit islamic banking financial institutions that could have enabled muslims youth access capital funds through islamic finance products permissible to muslims since 2010 then minister promised to bring amendments but it delayed yet muslims want these services urgently.
About lobbying dont involve kibuli or old kampala factions involve Uganda muslim network,UMBS ,UMYA
According to press reports 3 banks are already interested in opening in uganda,Gulf Africa bank by investors from Oman and Kenya ,National Bank of Commerce by U.A.E investors bt faced problems due to original owners refusing to transfering shares to them,and another bank being supported by the financial arm of Organisation Of Islamic Cooperation and present banks also want to intiate islamic finance products, abt sharia boards the banks have their sharia boards where they have started operations like in kenya,Tanzania,Rwanda,U.A.E so can use them intially then eventually set up local sharia boards and these banks may not want to utilise ugandan scholars because they want to avoid being seen as allying with one of the factions as they could want customers from all factions when things settle down then they can appoint ugandan scholars on sharia boards
abt skilled personnel we have bt they are few bt we can lobby IUIU to bring islamic finance degree course to taught to students
finally we should lncrease lobbying to parliament so that amendments bill is given space among bills to be discussed urgently.
Thank u
faysal mubarak
lugazi
Alhamdulillah, its been a wake up call regarding the Islamic Banking (IB) issue on the forum for the last days. First I am not against the idea but iam discussing the way it can be implemented to be called islamic. Lets start -
1.Banking – definition: Business activity of accepting and safeguarding money owned by other individuals and entities, and then lending out this money in order to earn a profit.
Whenever you start to mention Banking then you are inviting the Goverment regulations, bills and laws and enermity with already established banks. ( DID we learn anything from Greenland Bank?) Are we following the Global Banking – is the west not melting down because of this Banking approach?
2. Trade – definition: buying and selling commodities in order to gain a profit – this is a general definition. What is the IB going to buy and sell? will the IB owner of its something is going to sell? where IB is going to buy its something to sell?
Immam Kasozi has posted his experience regarding the efffort done before ( Sh. Sam Ahmad Ssentongo – Islamic social- economic solidarity, Abu Al Maulah the IICO, SACCO call them cooperative)
we learn from the effort done before two terminology: Solidarity – individuals with a common interest and cooperative – owned and run jointly by its members, share profits and benefits. Islamically this two terminology leads to Brotherhood – There have to be a sense of brotherhood for such a project to successed. The Banking system we want to use is more advantageous to certain individuals not the community approach. Also we learn that Imaan and sincerity is lacking in our community today. People borrowing with the intention of not paying back. Islamically, its better to pay of the debt as quick as possible.
Now the Banking system we want to adopt will use different means to get the money back if people fail to pay – first of all the money does not belong to the bank. Here is a problem Banking or Islam? Because islamically if someone is not paying back, the owner of the money is asked to be lenient and above all if he forgives the person who can not pay then thats even better, if the owner of the money knew. Will the Banking system we want to use practice that?
We can have islamic ecomonical system in place if we put the following in practice according to the teaching of Islam without coping other systems.
1. Imaan,sincerity, zakah, sadaqah – we have personalities in Uganda if they want to serve Allah, Deen and muslim community for the pleasure of Allah and pull together their resources, skills and man power to benefit the muslim community, like Abdur Rahman bin Auf, Abubakr as Siddiq, Umar bin Khattab, Uthman bin Affan, Ali ibn Abu Talib (May Allah be pleased with them), Khadijah Radia Allahu anha etc. They did it so can we if we so want and can be done even from today with out going to Goverment bills and its regulations. If we get that Brotherhood in social-economical approach, then the rest will be easier to deal with insha Allah
2. Trustworthy Personalities in Masjid leadership with community leadership -(amirs) to mobilize the ummah in their localities. Masjid connected with homes and its householders around it. Masjid to function similar to how it was during the first three generations of this Ummah. The more we say, it can not work the more we will copy systems which are going to lead us to failure.
3. Mualim or imam – who can teach the muslims Imaan and other aspects of deen and encourage them to live their lives according to the teaching of Islam, any other way leads to failure in this Life and life after death. For islamic system to work we do not need phds, Master degrees to lead but you need some personalities with Taqwaa (free Taqwa course is coming soon Ramadhan – please start to register and prepare for it)
I conclude by pointing out that we can not have something called Islamic Banking – but we can try to establish something similar to the principle of Bayt al -Mal – House of wealth – goods/resources/money(gold/silver/paper money?)
We have the institutions already Maasjid and we have resources,skills and man power. I believe.
For those who want to do a deep analysis;m Here you go….
Where is the largest gold or silver storanges in the world?
Do you see the value of Gold and silver compare to the value of paper money?
Do you know why UK did not join Euro paper money in Europe?
Do you know why Uk still use coins look like gold and silver in daily transcations?
If you want to buy petrol OR international business- which currency is accepted? Do you know why is that currency only widely accepted for international transcations?
Can you on oxford street in London buy a cup of tea with Uganda shillings?
Can you on luwum street in Kampala pay in dollars – if you do wish?
Do you know why Prophet Muhammad peace be on him adviced us to read surat AL KAHF every friday?
If you do, do u read it? understand it? – if you do not please start this friday and ask Allah to give u Taufiq to read it every friday until life will be take out from your body.
Sulaiman, streatham
Thank you all for your efforts to bring to light the above issue. However while the state may still be slow there is no body that has stopped those who can to do so. If you can recall during the 70s, Nyerere and company fought hard to frustrate east African community and at state level there was no trade between Uganda and Tanzania but the communities continued doing their trade. If you want Islamic systems implemented do start. The state will follow.
The unfortunate thing is that Islamic ways and systems are frustrated mainly by the Muslims and indirectly by the non Muslims. I will give an example. Sh. Sam Ahmad Ssentongo the Imaam Makerere University, came up with is and actully operationised it through Islamic social- economic solidarity. He even went ahead and registered it. He approached some of us and some companies who made some humble contributions. He started giving loand interest freeto anumber of people include sveral on this forum. Bu do you know The venture was frustrated by muslims who either failed to pay or have deliberately refused to pay back. It is a shame that even some prominent and seemingly well intentioned brothers are part of those who have not paid for year and yet they do not even communicate.
The unfortunate part is that they begin to avoid him and they creat stories of how complicated he is. Those of who stake something in this cause we fel betrayed. However we are still pushing on.
Secondly they talk of a SACCO I am sure that many of you Know IICO they started the same and for them they had some quite big amount but call at their offices. Most of the muslim groups who borrowed this interest free monies have not paid and they are now blaming Abu Al Maulah the IICO Uganda office. director. Those who have dought in what I am saying ask Br. Musa Mukiibi the acoountant with IICO. Last time I checked the IICO, CEO was threatening to suck Maula.
Lastly We have been calling for these SACCO call them cooperative and some people have embraced them but then what frustration by members failing to contribute their montly subscriptions and when you try to enforce the rules you become the enemy. I recall last started in a meetinf for one group I almost exchanged bad words with a member when she was pleading fo a wrong strategy and trying to derail us back.
Dear brothers and sisters in Islam we have the capacity to start Islamic systems but the will is not there for most us. We are only looking for advantage to us individuals not the community. The internal islamic borrowing and lending can develop as long as we have the will and commitment.
Lastly my observation has been that we are only interested in borrowing. We need to develop serious and critical business plans, develop the capacity, recreate the honesty and accountability our forfathers had and then we can Go. the biggest undoing the community has faced is the donnor syndrome. We can overcome this by starting small but consistent ventures and the supporters will meet us on the way.
Very few muslims are willing to sincerely work as a group. Individualism and sole propriatorship seem to be the norm let us overcome that.
Immam Kasozi
Chairman T4T.
Aslm Alkm, I hope you are all fine. Well, in a nutshell I would like to correct my sister Jamilah in Malaysia that in Oman is Islamic banking is operating with an example of Bank Nizwa. Also the share holders of National bank of Oman approved Islamic banking. His Majesty Sultan Qaboos approved the introduction of Islamic banking and as of now there is high demand for islamic banking in Oman with convectional banks trying to open Islamic windows. International Islamic Banking and Finance institutions are eyeing Oman with many conferences taking place in Muscat because they want to tap the Islamic assets in the market in excess of billions of dollars. So Uganda can learn from Oman as an example which hardly started two years ago and the future of Islamic banking is very bright as middle east investments are flocking Oman and they are enjoying the benefits of capital inflows. Aslm Alkm